{"id":20456,"date":"2017-05-09T16:00:20","date_gmt":"2017-05-09T20:00:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/askastudent.utoronto.ca\/?p=20456"},"modified":"2019-07-20T15:06:39","modified_gmt":"2019-07-20T19:06:39","slug":"compsci-conundrum","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/askastudent.utoronto.ca\/?p=20456","title":{"rendered":"compsci conundrum"},"content":{"rendered":"

I am planning on attending UTSC (but I think this question should be
\napplicable to the other campuses) this September, and I am looking for
\nadvice on whether I should aim for a major + 2 minor or (software
\nengineering) specialist program in Computer Science.<\/p>\n

I am leaning towards the major + 2 minor option for the following reasons:<\/p>\n

The specialist program requires some additional courses that I think would
\nmake it more difficult than the major. For example, it requires both Linear
\nAlgebra II and Intro to Probability, whereas the major program let’s you
\nchoose one of them. Another math course that is required is Calculus of
\nSeveral Variables I, which just sounds terrifying. And I know that math is
\nimportant in CS, but, I am only okay in math (ended with 83 in functions
\nbecause trig killed me [I probably wouldn’t have done that well on it in
\nthe first place, but I planned poorly for other subjects, and so did not
\nhave time to study for the unit test]; calc seems much more interesting,
\nthough), and so I would like to skip some of these math courses.
\nAdditionally, I am not sure how useful or hard some of the additional CS
\ncourses like Intro to Numerical Algorithms for Computational Mathematics or
\nComputability and Computational Complexity will be\u2014they all seem very
\nabstract and not-practical.<\/p>\n

Another reason I want the major + 2 minor is that I would get two minors. I
\nam taking Writer’s Craft this year and have realized that I quite enjoy
\ncreative writing. It just so happens that UTSC offers a minor program under
\nEnglish called Creative Writing. I think taking this minor alongside the CS
\nmajor would be a great way to lessen the workload and pursue something I
\nenjoy, while also pursing something else I enjoy that can actually earn me
\nmoney. Having only math and theory-based CS courses besides a small number
\nof electives is not too appealing to me. I realize that those courses are
\nbetter than practical programming courses in the long-run, but having them
\nmake up the vast majority of my degree seems a bit painful. I don’t have a
\nsolid pick for a second minor yet, but I don’t think it would be hard for
\nme to choose one (linguistics and food science are top contenders).<\/p>\n

Here, then, are reasons I might want to go the specialist route:<\/p>\n

I\u2019m special.<\/p>\n

I think some of the courses the specialist has you take would be pretty
\nbeneficial. For example, since my goal is to get a job as a programmer, the
\ncourses that seem to teach you how to do stuff in a real-world environment
\nlike Intro to Software Engineering and Engineering Large Software Systems
\ncould really be useful, and I might be missing out if I opt for the major.
\nThere are also a few other courses like Programming on the Web and Intro to
\nDatabases which could add to my skill set and make me more marketable for
\nco-op and post-post-secondary jobs. I am of course just predicting how
\nvaluable these courses might be form their names and descriptions alone;
\nthat’s why I’m asking you! The major program only allows you to take 1
\ncredit of additional C\/D-level (300\/400-level) CS courses, which means
\nmissing out on some potentially useful courses. I am guessing that it is
\nnot possible to take more as electives, but is it?<\/p>\n

My minors will probably also not help at all with my future career; I would
\nonly be taking them to lessen the amount of math\/CS courses and increase
\nthe amount of enjoyable courses. Is that a bad thing to do?<\/p>\n

So, to conclude, do you think the benefits for taking the specialist
\nprogram (additional useful courses) outweighs the cons (more un-fun
\ncourses; less fun courses)? Both choices aid the mind, but in different
\nways (i.e. one probably reduces chances of suicide).<\/p>\n

Thank you and sorry for the long message; I wanted to make my points clear
\n\ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014<\/p>\n

buddy.<\/p>\n

i began penning a response to this question that went a little something like: \u201cjust go with your gut! it seems like you\u2019re leaning towards the major and two minors option! why not pursue that?\u201d, but upon further reflection, i\u2019ve decided that we need to rewind a little, if that\u2019s okay with you.<\/p>\n

(just so you know, i’m not a computer science student, nor have i taken any computer science classes and i’m just as confused as you are about these programs. i\u2019m speaking only as a seasoned upper year student)<\/p>\n

before i start ripping into you, (it\u2019s going to happen, i\u2019m sorry) kudos to you for thinking this hard about what program you want to get into. it’s clear you’ve put a lot of thought into this, which is great. this response isn\u2019t supposed to make you feel bad- i just want to bring you back to earth a little.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

so, first- you\u2019ve made some serious assumptions on what these courses are going to be like. i can tell you from experience that i’ve made assumptions based on course names and have been incredibly wrong. classes also vary pretty dramatically depending on the instructor.<\/p>\n

*askastorytime* i took a class called urban geography, planning, and political processes. i thought was going to be super difficult and intense, but it ended up being super chill. for our final project, we created a zine and performed a rap for the class. for our group presentation, i contributed a sick drum beat and didn’t even utter a single word. moral of the story: do not judge courses by their names. linear algebra is probs super easy. (i’m kidding. math is never easy. math is very hard. we mustn’t joke about math.)<\/em><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

your assumptions that some classes are \u201cabstract\u201d, \u201cnon-practical\u201d or \u201cterrifying\u201d are all based on the course name. the truth is, every program at u of t will require a great deal of hard work. sure, easy courses exist, but transitioning from high school to first year is a huge challenge and you need to take that into account. picking the major and two minors option over a specialist program doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that you\u2019ll be choosing the \u2018easier route\u2019. like i\u2019ve said in previous posts, it really depends on how deep you want to get into a subject. a major and two minors allows you to explore a larger variety of subjects whereas a specialist will let you dig deep into one subject. which option are you more interested in?<\/p>\n

while the university does have a breadth requirement<\/a> which encourages us to take courses outside of our faculty, personally, if i were to choose two minors that were completely unrelated to my major, i feel like i would have lots of difficulty focusing on each one and feel like a scatterbrain. for others who are better at multitasking and switching between subjects easily, a major and two minors is perfect! it really depends on what kind of person you are. can you turn your computer science mind off and jump right into phonetics and phonology if you need to? you\u2019ll have to test that out in your first year! p.s. don’t forget to take a moment to check out the requirements for your potential minors and their different application requirements.<\/a><\/p>\n

that being said, from what i\u2019ve heard, computer science is extremely math heavy. there is no easy way out. you have been warned.<\/p>\n

for now, i think you should try picking courses that are prerequisites for the general computer science programs (if you are sure about pursuing computer science), and see how you feel about them. fear not, the utsc calendar literally says that it\u2019s not meant to be difficult to switch between different streams within computer science.<\/a><\/p>\n

you have plenty of time to discuss your options with an academic advisor<\/a> as well! you can also talk to the program supervisor<\/a> for computer science if you have more specific questions about the available compsci programs.<\/p>\n

i\u2019d also encourage you to reach out to current or past computer science alumni to get some different perspectives on how they chose their programs. hearing other people\u2019s thought processes might help you figure out\u00a0what you’re looking for!<\/p>\n

hey, if doing programming for your whole undergrad sounds terrible for you, maybe computer science isn\u2019t the right program for you. your first year is meant for you to explore and discover what courses you like. you don\u2019t even necessarily need to get into your program by second year if you still don\u2019t know what to do after your first year.<\/a><\/p>\n

so in conclusion, specialist courses won\u2019t necessarily be more useful in the long run, and if the idea of specializing in software engineering doesn\u2019t sound colourful enough for you, maybe the major and two minor option will be better for you! again, you really need to take some university level classes to see what it\u2019s really like here. don\u2019t judge a book by its cover, yo.<\/p>\n

good luck with your decision, i hope you choose a program you like!<\/p>\n

peace and love,<\/p>\n

aska<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I am planning on attending UTSC (but I think this question should be applicable to the other campuses) this September, and I am looking for advice on whether I should aim for a major + 2 minor or (software engineering) specialist program in Computer Science. I am leaning towards the major + 2 minor option for the following reasons: The specialist program requires some additional courses that I think would make it more difficult than the major. For example, it requires both Linear Algebra II and Intro to Probability, whereas the major program let’s you choose one of them. Another math course that is required is Calculus of Several Variables I, which just sounds terrifying. And I know that math is important in CS, but, I am only okay in math (ended with 83 in functions because trig killed me [I probably wouldn’t have done that well on it in the first place, but I planned poorly for other subjects, and so did not have time to study for the unit test]; calc seems much more interesting, though), and so I would like to skip some of these math courses. Additionally, I am not sure how useful or hard some of the additional CS courses like Intro to Numerical Algorithms for Computational Mathematics or Computability and Computational Complexity will be\u2014they all seem very abstract and not-practical. Another reason I want the major + 2 minor is that I would get two minors. I am taking Writer’s Craft this year and have realized that I quite enjoy creative writing. It just so happens that UTSC offers a minor program under English called Creative Writing. I think taking this minor alongside the CS major would be a great way to lessen the workload and pursue something I enjoy, while also pursing something else I enjoy that can actually earn me money. Having only math and theory-based CS courses besides a small number of electives is not too appealing to me. I realize that those courses are better than practical programming courses in the long-run, but having them make up the vast majority of my degree seems a bit painful. I don’t have a solid pick for a second minor yet, but I don’t think it would be hard for me to choose one (linguistics and food science are top contenders). Here, then, are reasons I might want to go the specialist route: I\u2019m special. I think some of the courses the specialist has you take would be pretty beneficial. For example, since my goal is to get a job as a programmer, the courses that seem to teach you how to do stuff in a real-world environment like Intro to Software Engineering and Engineering Large Software Systems could really be useful, and I might be missing out if I opt for the major. There are also a few other courses like Programming on the Web and Intro to Databases which could add to my skill set and make me more marketable for co-op and post-post-secondary jobs. I am of course just predicting how valuable these courses might be form their names and descriptions alone; that’s why I’m asking you! The major program only allows you to take 1 credit of additional C\/D-level (300\/400-level) CS courses, which means missing out on some potentially useful courses. I am guessing that it is not possible to take more as electives, but is it? My minors will probably also not help at all with my future career; I would only be taking them to lessen the amount of math\/CS courses and increase the amount of enjoyable courses. Is that a bad thing to do? So, to conclude, do you think the benefits for taking the specialist program (additional useful courses) outweighs the cons (more un-fun courses; less fun courses)? Both choices aid the mind, but in different ways (i.e. one probably reduces chances of suicide). Thank you and sorry for the long message; I wanted to make my points clear \ud83d\ude42 \u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014\u2014 buddy. i began penning a response to this question that went a little something like: \u201cjust go with your gut! it seems like you\u2019re leaning towards the major and two minors option! why not pursue that?\u201d, but upon further reflection, i\u2019ve decided that we need to rewind a little, if that\u2019s okay with you. (just so you know, i’m not a computer science student, nor have i taken any computer science classes and i’m just as confused as you are about these programs. i\u2019m speaking only as a seasoned upper year student) before i start ripping into you, (it\u2019s going to happen, i\u2019m sorry) kudos to you for thinking this hard about what program you want to get into. it’s clear you’ve put a lot of thought into this, which is great. this response isn\u2019t supposed to make you feel bad- i just want to bring you back to earth a little. so, first- you\u2019ve made some serious assumptions on what these courses are going to be like. i can tell you from experience that i’ve made assumptions based on course names and have been incredibly wrong. classes also vary pretty dramatically depending on the instructor. *askastorytime* i took a class called urban geography, planning, and political processes. i thought was going to be super difficult and intense, but it ended up being super chill. for our final project, we created a zine and performed a rap for the class. for our group presentation, i contributed a sick drum beat and didn’t even utter a single word. moral of the story: do not judge courses by their names. linear algebra is probs super easy. (i’m kidding. math is never easy. math is very hard. we mustn’t joke about math.) your assumptions that some classes are \u201cabstract\u201d, \u201cnon-practical\u201d or \u201cterrifying\u201d are all based on the course name. the truth is, every program at u of t will require a great deal of hard work. sure, easy courses exist, but transitioning from high school to first year is a huge challenge and you need to take that into account. picking the major and two minors option over a specialist program doesn\u2019t necessarily mean that you\u2019ll be choosing the \u2018easier route\u2019. like i\u2019ve said in previous posts, it really depends on how deep you want to get into a subject. a major and two minors allows you to explore a larger variety of subjects whereas a specialist will let you dig deep into one subject. which option are you more interested in? while the university does have a breadth requirement which encourages us to take courses outside of our faculty, personally, if i were to choose two minors that were completely unrelated to my major, i feel like i would have lots of difficulty focusing on each one and feel like a scatterbrain. for others who are better at multitasking and switching between subjects easily, a major and two minors is perfect! it really depends on what kind of person you are. can you turn your computer science mind off and jump right into phonetics and phonology if you need to? you\u2019ll have to test that out in your first year! p.s. don’t forget to take a moment to check out the requirements for your potential minors and their different application requirements. that being said, from what i\u2019ve heard, computer science is extremely math heavy. there is no easy way out. you have been warned. for now, i think you should try picking courses that are prerequisites for the general computer science programs (if you are sure about pursuing computer science), and see how you feel about them. fear not, the utsc calendar literally says that it\u2019s not meant to be difficult to switch between different streams within computer science. you have plenty of time to discuss your options with an academic advisor as well! you can also talk to the program supervisor for computer science if you have more specific questions about the available compsci programs. i\u2019d also encourage you to reach out to current or past computer science alumni to get some different perspectives on how they chose their programs. hearing other people\u2019s thought processes might help you figure out\u00a0what you’re looking for! hey, if doing programming for your whole undergrad sounds terrible for you, maybe computer science isn\u2019t the right program for you. your first year is meant for you to explore and discover what courses you like. you don\u2019t even necessarily need to get into your program by second year if you still don\u2019t know what to do after your first year. so in conclusion, specialist courses won\u2019t necessarily be more useful in the long run, and if the idea of specializing in software engineering doesn\u2019t sound colourful enough for you, maybe the major and two minor option will be better for you! again, you really need to take some university level classes to see what it\u2019s really like here. don\u2019t judge a book by its cover, yo. good luck with your decision, i hope you choose a program you like! peace and love, aska<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,117,214,6,44,45,258],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-20456","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-arts-sciences","category-choosing","category-computer-science","category-courses","category-keeners","category-math","category-programs"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t