Hello,
My situation has been stressing me out and I can’t get my mind of it. I was wondering if you can put my mind to rest and answer my question honestly.
My grade 11 marks aren’t that great: 70’s average
religion: 70
anthropology: 71
physics: 63
functions and relations: 94
english: 82
Chemistry: 70
I am sure you students may have some empathy to as what I am going through. These poor marks (attributed to part-time job) have demoralized me as I fear I may not get into the engineering science program at the university of toronto.
So, my question is: if I attain a respectable average (high 80’s to low 90’s) in grade 12, would i get into the program despite having poor grade 11 marks?
Furthermore, how significant are the extra-cirriculars?
Please share your wisdom and how (or if) your grade 11 marks affected your entry into engineering programs.
Thanks for your time,
Aaron
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Yo Yo Aaron,
Generally what I tell students is to just focus on getting awesome grades in their grade 12 year and not worry about their grade 11 ones. There’s nothing you can do about it now.?In the words of Cher ‘If I could turn back time. If I could find the way’ … I would get better grades.
Here’s what the engineering website says:
Academic Requirements
The admissions committee encourages students to apply if they have an 80% or higher average in high school (to be competitive, students should aim for higher). We consider results from Grade 11 and 12 (or prior academic performance in other jurisdictions) and any Post Secondary education subjects(if taken), when making admission decisions. We pay special attention to grades achieved in prerequisite subjects, and do not encourage students to repeat prerequisite courses. Your first attempt at a course provides the best indication of your ability. All required courses must have been completed within the last five years. Students who have been out of studies for more than five years should contact the Engineering Undergraduate Admissions Office.
Non-Academic Requirements
To get a complete picture of each applicant?s skills and interests, in addition to academic performance, each applicant must submit an online Student Profile Form (SPF). This form allows applicants to elaborate on their interests, abilities and strengths through extracurricular activities. Students will receive more information about the SPF after submitting their application through the OUAC.
Now I almost LOL’d (literally, not like when people?write that and don’t actually laugh) when you mentioned Extra Curriculars … but apparenty the Engineering department does consider them. I would say it puts you above other students if you have something a little different to offer.
I’m? going to suggest going to talk to your schools guidance cousellor and giving the deparment of Admissions and Awards for Engineering a shout.
NOW go study!
just kidding.
Love,
Aska
2 Comments
Justin
Aaron,
I don’t purposely intend to discourage you from trying to get into the Engineering Science Program (coming from a third year Nsci student), but you might want to know a few facts before you commit yourself to it. I see that you have a part-time job. I know that may take a toll on how much you get to study but to be honest I’m not sure it matters that much. Almost all my friends at my high school back then who went on to go to engsci could understand concepts during class and studying for us was mainly just practicing for exam questions (more refining than learning). Although you don’t get enough time to practice because of your job, you should honestly be earning at least high 70s to mid 80s on these conceptual science courses (which is pretty much every course you will take in Engsci except Biology and Materials courses). You should also consider the things you wonder about in class. You’ve probably learned Newton’s laws of motion in physics. Have you ever wondered about things like what would happen if you applied a force for a short period of time on a surface with no friction? Where a bike wheel’s centre of rotation is? These are the kinds of questions that a lot of engscis think about when learning concepts and it is the ONLY way to fully wrap your ahead around one.
Now, that’s just for getting into engsci. In my year, 270 people were admitted and two semesters later, 170 (roughly) remained. So if you want to stay in Engsci, you better be confident that you are better than at least 100 other kids. And even after that, you have to think about whether or not you want to be struggling the rest of the way. Personally, I was ranked (yes you get ranked in engineering) 70th out of 270 in first year with an 81 average but now I am a bit below average (even though I’m in a tougher stream than most). Now I don’t want to come off as a bitter engsci (although many of us are) but I applied through OUAC with a 94.5 percent top 6 and many of my friends who have 95+ average were getting mid 60s average by first year second semester.
Most importantly, before you take this program, you have to ask yourself why you want to get in. Do you want to be challenged? People in high school who studied hard and managed to get mid 90 grades want to be challenged, sure. But hard work alone cannot possibly be enough to keep you in engsci without getting your soul crushed. You must think that high school courses were literally a breeze before you should consider engsci.
The main things that I thought differed from high school in engsci is that you need 1. at least some raw genius and 2. a superb ability to focus and stare at an engineering textbook for a long time (this is harder than it sounds). If you feel like you have both these things, you should give it a shot and get it your all next year.
Finally, I want to list out a bunch of things about your first two years in engsci:
1. You will have 30+ hours of class until third year. That’s six hours a day.
2. At the bare minimum, you will probably need to devote at least 2.5 hours a day doing homework in a heavily focused environment. If you go on facebook and msn regularly, double this number.
3. If you spend too much time making your notes neat in class you probably won’t be able to absorb all the material (it is taught a super brisk pace)
4. If you spend too much time listening, your notes will probably not be complete and in most courses, class notes are the most concise and enlightening media for learning.
5. Your professor often lulls you into a false sense of security by going over material and spending only a short time on it. He probably just expects you to learn it on your own.
6. In Engsci, you don’t do many practice problems in class so you have no idea what the test is going to cover. Past exams are good but for some courses they might only ask you a few questions and you probably won’t be lucky enough to catch a question close enough to previous year’s exams. In my electives though (esp. compsci), the professor is actually nice enough to do practice problems.
7. Quantum Mechanics is probably the toughest course to wrap your head around. Most of us still don’t understand it.
8. Aer201 is a project where you have to design an autonomous robot with a group of 2 other people. Unless you are really pro with machinery, circuit design and handiwork (the programming part is usually no problem), you will probably spend another 1.5 hours on this per night, in addition to homework. If you get this far in engsci, I don’t advise you to spend too much time on this, even though it might give you a temporary sense of accomplishment.
Again, I don’t want to discourage you and I have known some students who do better in university than high school, but those are students who usually really badly in the humanities instead of the sciences. You should think about what you really want out of engsci and consider if it’s what you want to do, that’s all I’m asking.
Cheers,
Justin
Sol
U of T is different beast, different from high school and certainly different from other Universities. They will take you, no problem, because they are only interested in money. If you are concerned about your marks now, you will have panic attacks at U of T. U of T involves little classroom time and more focus on rote memorization. If you are exceptional at that, you will be exceptional at U of T. Period. Engineering is even more of a monstrosity. Read above.