• 12 distinct credits,  current student,  life science,  programs

    all my homies hate the 12 distinct credits rule

    August 3, 2022

    hi! i ended up switching programs after first year so figuring out requirements has been crazy. i’m aiming for a human bio major with two minors, psych and imm. the issue is that the immunology minor doesn’t have a lot of required classes and almost all of the listed ones are also in the hmb program. how does this work with the distinct courses thing? thank you for any help!

    hey there,

    ok, maybe “hate” is too harsh a word but let’s face it, it’s just confusing.

    i also wanna preface this post by saying i am so sorry for the late response… the blog post backlog has been real, but hopefully this still helps someone out there :’)

    so anyway, back to that pesky 12 distinct credits rule. the whole idea is that your program requirements should add up to at least 12 different FCEs. for example, the human bio major is 8.0 FCEs. if all of the 4.0 FCEs in your imm minor end up overlapping with human bio, then you’d need to make sure to take 4.0 FCEs in your psych minor that are all distinct from your human bio/imm courses — that would get you to 12 distinct credits.

    of course, psych probably also overlaps with human bio/imm/other life sci programs, so it might not be possible to get 12 distinct credits just by meeting the minimum requirements of the programs. for example, even if you take your 8.0 FCEs for human bio and they all overlap with imm, you could take a few more eligible hmb or imm courses beyond the overlapping ones in order to fulfill 12 distinct FCEs for your program courses. alternatively, you could try to enrol in a different combination of programs to make it easier to get those distinct credits.

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    i know this all sounds incredibly convoluted, which is probably why utsc has a whole worksheet on the rule. personally, i’ve just planned things out on degree explorer which helps to just lay out all your program courses so that you can count them all up and make sure that they add up to at least 12.0 FCEs total.

    hope that helps!

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    aska learns how to succinctly explain the 12 distinct credits rule (whoo!)

    April 8, 2014

    whats the rule on courses that qualify for both your majors? do they count for both?

    ———————————————

    hey there,

    the rule is called the ‘12 distinct credits‘ rule. a quick (but not foolproof!) way of calculating the number of credits that you can share between majors is to add together the number of credits that both majors require, and then subtract 12.0: the remainder is the number of credits which can be applied to both majors.

    however, it can be pretty tricky to keep track of this yourself, so feel free to check with your registrar’s office to make sure you’re following this rule properly. degree explorer also does a good job of monitoring it as well.

    cheers,

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    12.0 distinct credits will ruin me

    July 16, 2014

    Does the 12.0 different fce have to be from outside the major or can I take extra credits from the major to have 12.0 different btw the programs as long as they don’t overlap?

    ———————————————

    hey there,

    that question is making my head spin and i’m not really sure what you’re asking, SO i’m just gonna explain the rule as clearly as i can.

    if you’re still confused, just keep asking me until you get it. or go to your registrar’s office, ‘cuz eventually i’ll just get bored and go suntanning for the day.

    if you are taking two majors, OR one major and two minors, then 12.0 credits out of the 20.0+ you take as part of your degree will have to be ‘distinct,’ i.e. count as a requirement for only one POSt. so if a credit is a requirement for one of your POSts, but none of your other ones, it’is a distinct credit. and how many of those do you need? that’s right. 12.0.

    so the 12.0 are not “in the major” or “outside the major” or whatever. they’re just credits that are only requirements for a single subject POSt. the rest of the credits you take during your degree can overlap for one, two, or all of of POSts, or count for none at all. capice?

    cool. now let’s split and go to the pool.

    cheers,

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    20+ credits stand before me, but only 12 can be distinct

    July 15, 2014

    I am doing a major and 2 minors which means i can overlap 3 FCE’s, that can go towards my 12.0 different FCE courses. By the end of this year, I will have the 12.0 done counting the 3 FCE overlapping so does it matter if I overlap more courses among the programs to complete the 6 min 3/4 level?

    ———————————————

    hey there,

    the 12.0 distinct credits rule is one of the trickiest to follow at this university, but as long as you complete 12.0 FCEs during your degree that apply to only one subject POSt each, you’re safe. if you’re unsure about whether you’re meeting this requirement, Degree Explorer does a pretty good job of tracking it for you.

    if you’re not averse to meeting with real human people to discuss this, i’d also recommend going to the registrar’s office to make sure everything is fine and dandy. they’re not that scary. promise.

    cheers,

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    twelve angry credits

    February 2, 2015

    I know that a double major should have 12 distinct credits, but is there any similar rule for combining a major and minor? For example, I’m currently doing a biochem major (& something else) and wanted to also add a biology minor. I’ve taken most of the courses in the biology minor for my biochem major already. Is this allowed?

    ———————————————

    hey there,

    well, one major and one minor is not one of the standard?combinations of subject POSts, so no, there is no similar rule for that particular combo. the basic rule of thumb is that the 12.0 distinct credits rule applies to either two majors, or a major and two minors.

    which means that if the ‘something else’ you’re doing is another major, and then you’re adding a minor on top of two majors, you’ll be in the same situation as this person. in that case, the 12.0 distinct credits rule will apply to your two majors, but not to your minor. so no worries!

    cheers,

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    gotta make those credits DISTINCT

    January 26, 2015

    Hi Aska,

    I am currently enrolled in a double major in? immunology and human biology: health and disease, and a minor in psychology. Does the 12 distinct credit rule still apply to a combination of a 2 majors and 1 minor? If so, is it calculated in the same way (make sure only 8 credits are able to count for?more than subject post)? Would a course be able to overlap for all 3 of the subject post? For example, BIO130 satisfies a requirement in both?majors and the minor. Would BIO130 count as 0.5 out of the 8 possible?overlapping courses?

    Thanks for the help.

    ———————————————

    hey there,

    since you’re doing a kind of FUNKY combination of subject POSts that is out of the three standard ones required by the university (i.e. 1 specialist, 2 majors, or 1 major and 2 minors), the 12.0 distinct credits rule only kind of applies to you. and by that i mean: it applies to your two majors, but not to your minor.

    as to how it’s calculated – that’s kinda confusing and tends to make students feel very panicky and worried, so i’ll try to break it down for you nice and simple.

    if you’ve got two majors, what you need to do is make sure that you take 12.0 FCEs throughout your entire degree that only count for ONE MAJOR. all the rest can overlap. again: 12.0 of the credits you take have to count towards the requirements for one of your majors, but NOT?the other.

    for example, if BIO130 counts towards BOTH your majors, then it is not a distinct credit, but an overlapping credit.

    this is something that degree explorer tracks, by the way, so if you’re still feeling BEFUDDLED over all of this, feel free to log onto there and see how you’re doing. also, you can make an appointment with your registrar’s office to discuss this VERY THING, as part of an appointment called a ‘grad check.’

    cheers,

    aska

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  • anthropology,  major,  minor,  programs

    if they don’t say no, it’s a yes

    April 9, 2024

    I’m from an Ontario high school, can I double major in Anthropology and Archeology and minor in Indigenous studies? Like is that a thing?

    hey there,

    well, have i got good news for you. *fishes in my pocket* here it is: to my understanding, yes, you can absolutely do a double major in anthropology and archaeology while also doing a minor in indigenous studies. i think that’s a really great combination, those programs compliment each other so well!

    below is my explanation. there are a couple reasons why i think you might have asked this question, and i think i’ve got them covered.

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    1. are anthropology and archaeology too similar?

    there is nothing i can find on the department of anthropology website or on the arts & science calendar that says you can’t take both anthropology and archaeology together. i get how it might be confusing because they’re both in the same department, and require several of the same courses. but if they don’t say otherwise, i’m pretty sure you can take them at the same time. because usually, if you can’t take two programs together, they’ll clearly say it on the program pages that i linked above.

    and, it’s actually a good thing that archaeology and anthropology are similar. if you do choose to do a double major and a minor, you may be worried about fitting in all the courses into four years, since that minor adds on extra credits to fulfill. but you should know that you’re able to take courses that count towards both of these programs.

    for example, if you took ANT100Y1, it would be counted towards both your archaeology and anthropology majors. hitting two credits with one class! that’s not the only one, too. there are many other courses i can see that overlap between these programs. work smarter, not harder.

    TV gif. Think about it guy, Kayode Ewumi points to his temple mischievously and looks into the camera. He's practically begging us to think about it.

    2. can i take 2 majors and a minor?

    another reason you might have asked the question is because it initially seems like you only have 3 program combinations to build your own degree with: one specialist, or two majors, or one major and two minors.

    but these options are just the minimum that you need to graduate. some students choose to do more than this, and it’s great! the maximum number of programs you can take is 3, as long as one of them is a minor.

    3. 12 distinct credit rule

    keep in mind that there is a rule about having 12 distinct credits. this means you need at least 12 different credits that aren’t overlapped, and it kind of just makes sure that people don’t overlap their entire degree. like, there is a limit.

    finally, i’d recommend checking out one of my recent answers to a similar question. and if you’re ever unsure about anything programs-wise, or need an Official Answer TM, literally just send an email to the department you’re looking at. they’re so helpful and will have answers, too. (it’s literally their job! take advantage of that!)

    good luck with everything, hope this clears things up!

    over and out,

    aska

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  • choosing,  programs,  switching

    this person’s got some major problems

    November 9, 2023

    hi aska,

    I already changed up my major a few times (you might remember me based on some info, i settled on Cellular and Molecular Bio) and now im in 2nd year catching up on CHM135, 136, BIO130, and MAT135, and BIO270 (and i have no room for 136 this year, so I’ll either take it in the summer or another year). I was considering dropping my other major (PoliSci) down to a minor and picking up chemistry as another minor depending on how well I do in CHM135 (the registrar said I’d just have to apply for the PoliSci minor in the second session before march) and hopefully switching to a chemistry double major. The only problems are

    1) I’ve already taken 2 credits worth of PoliSci classes and I’m currently enrolled in another credits worth.

    2) My parents REALLY want me to graduate in 4 years.

    So should I risk it for the Chemistry major (with the potential for wasted classes — my breadth is already complete) or just do a double minor, or keep everything the way it is?

    hey there,

    so it seems like your main problem here is figuring out if you can fit these programs into a four year degree, if you switch into them now. let’s start off with what seems like your ideal choice: to major in cellular and molecular bio, major in chem, and minor in poli sci. to graduate, you’ll choose a program combination from the following options (i’m sure you already know this, but just in case anyone doesn’t know this):

    1. a specialist
    2. a major and two minors
    3. two majors

    but these are just the minimum requirements, and some people choose to do more! so if you were to do two majors and a minor, the two majors will satisfy your graduation requirement, and the minor will just be an extra program.

    Amelia Parker & The Parker Andersons 105 byutv marblemedia amelia parker GIF

    when taking a double major and a minor, you’ll want to try taking courses that will count towards two of your majors. a poli sci minor requires 4.0 credits to complete, a chem major requires 8.0 credits to complete, and a cmb major requires 8.0 credits to complete. this means that you need to complete 20.0 credits over all your programs. cmb and chem have some overlapping courses, which will help. for you, most of the first year chm and mat courses are the same between a chem major and cmb major. for example, you can use mat 135 and chm 135 for both your chem and cmb majors.

    however, keep in mind the 12 distinct credits requirement. this would only apply to your two majors, since the minor is extra. between your two majors, there are 16.0 credits, so you can overlap a maximum of 4.0 credits.

    and then there’s your other option—to major in cmb, and have 2 minors in poli sci and chem. this would include a total of 16.0 credits to complete. again here, you can overlap a maximum of 4.0 credits. i think this kinda seems simpler, but if you want to major in chem, i say try your best to make it happen! you only have one chance at an undergrad degree (and it’s kinda miserable), so you might as well come out of it with programs that you want to have.

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    if you have 2 years left after this one, it’s hard to tell what option will work. it honestly could be possible to do a double major and minor, but i literally can’t tell without knowing what courses you’ve already taken, and if taking summer school is possible for you. i really think you should take some time and plan out each option for yourself. i would recommend mapping things out on degree explorer, and counting exactly how many FCE’s you need, while making sure you have 12 distinct FCE’s. (this can be confusing, which is why i am gifting you a 12 distinct credits worksheet).

    finally, in terms of your first problem, you say that you’ve already taken 2 credits of poli sci courses and are enrolled in 1 credit. tbh, i’m unsure what the problem is here? if you wanted to drop the poli sci major down to a minor, i don’t think you would be wasting courses, since it still would require 4.0 credits to complete? unless the courses you took aren’t counted for the minor.

    again, i will always point y’all to your college registrar for these kinds of complicated, multiple pathway questions! i am unfortunately not a psychic or fortune teller. but man, i wish i was.

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    but for real, i hope this was helpful either way, and literally send another ask if it wasn’t.

    over and out,

    aska

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  • subject POST

    hello again

    March 3, 2021

    Hello! i have a question about applying for programs. so, i’m a first year and i’m thinking about applying for an english major, a cinema studies major, and a creative expression in society minor. the only problem is that i haven’t done the first year cinema studies major, which seems to be the prerequisite for me to actually apply for this program. i know i can just apply for cinema studies in my second year after doing CIN105 in 2nd year (instead of 1st year), but what should i be doing before my second year?

    should i just apply for english and creative expression in society after my first year, and just have those 2 programs? or should i applying for another program instead of cinema studies as a backup?

    on another note, how many programs should i be applying for in terms of backup programs? can i apply for as many as i want and then choose which to keep and which to drop?

    also, what is the 12 credits rule? i’ve heard of it but i’m not sure what it is.

    sorry about the super long question! thanks 🙂

    ——————————————

    hey there,

    if i’m understanding this right, i took a long time to answer your original question so you sent this one in! that’s cool, i’ll just use this post to fill in some more blanks and address your new questions.

    it makes sense that you’d be wondering what you should do before your second year. i’d recommend that you apply for your english major and creative expression and society minor, and then add a placeholder major or minor as well. an open enrolment program would be ideal if you’re just picking a random program — but if you can pick something you’re genuinely interested in as a backup, do that instead.

    what i will note is that you can’t just request the english major and creative expression minor, because without the minimum program enrolment of a double major, a major + two minors, or a specialist, you won’t be able to register in second-year courses. something in the system will block you, i believe!

    i’m actually not sure if there’s a limit on how many programs you should apply for, but i believe you can apply for several and then choose which one to keep. you can probably verify this with a quick email to your registrar.

    what is the 12 distinct credits rule? funny that you ask, because everyone has this question. i’ve done a previous explainer here, and if anything’s unclear still, feel free to drop another something in the ask box and i’ll get back to you quicker than last time!

    hope the rest of your semester goes well, and good luck <3

    be Boundless,

    aska

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  • subject POST

    don’t let your dreams be dreams

    November 9, 2020

    Hiya! I’m a smol first year wondering if it’s possible to do a double major and a minor. I really want to do the creative expression and society minor but I’m just not sure if doing a major + 2 minors is best, which is why I’m wondering if a double major + one minor is possible. Thanks!

    ——————————————

    Hi! I was just wondering if it’s possible to do a double major AND a minor. Is that allowed? Would it set me back in my studies? Thanks 🙂

    ——————————————

    hello friends,

    answering these two questions in one go because they’re quite similar!

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    the maximum number of subject POSts you can select is three, as long as one is a minor, so it’s definitely possible to do a double major and a minor.

    that’s actually how i’ve chosen to complete my degree as well, so i definitely see the appeal in it and wouldn’t discourage you from doing so! in my case, there was a minor i really wanted to take for fun, but i also wanted the security of having two different majors. i can tell you that from personal experience, it won’t necessarily set you back in your studies (ie. force you to take more than 20 FCEs) as long as you have some overlap between your programs and plan things out very carefully.

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    i say very carefully, because planning out three programs can get quite complicated and, frankly, stressful. that’s particularly true if you “wasted” a few credits in first year (wasted as in took classes that won’t count to any of your programs), have credit/no credited courses, or need to take courses outside your programs for breadth requirements .

    here’s some advice i would give you:

    • choose programs with at least some potential for overlap. i’m in two majors within the same discipline, so they share a few courses. otherwise, i’d definitely need to take more than 20.0 FCEs to complete my programs. if you have really diverse interests, for example if you want to double major in chem and history, you obviously don’t need to heed this advice. but if you’re not set on specific programs yet, keeping this piece of advice in mind when you apply for POSts will make your life easier.
    • understand the 12 distinct credits rule, which will give you a sense of how many credits you can count towards both your majors. the 12 distinct credits rule won’t apply to your minor, so pile on whatever overlap you can there!
    • find out if your programs offer any room for flexibility. i know that some interdisciplinary programs will allow you to request course substitutions, which can help you seek out overlap between your three programs. i’ve saved myself some credits by contacting the person who administers one of my programs, to ask if they’ll be willing to take semi-related courses from my other program. if that makes any sense.
    • if you run into any roadblocks, get in touch with your registrar’s office. an academic advisor there will be able to help you iron out any issues.
    • keep track of what courses you’ve taken and what requirements you’ve fulfilled. degree explorer is a very helpful tool for this. i also like to use excel sometimes, because i can map out all my courses and colour-code them according to what requirement they fulfill.

    i hope this helped! if you’d like to talk your decision over further, you can always reach out to your registrar, who will be able to provide you with more in-depth advice.

    be Boundless,

    aska

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  • credits

    after a year at u of t you’ll be able to answer this question in your sleep

    August 14, 2020

    HI! This may sound like a dumb question, but approximately how many courses amount to 20 credits?

    ——————————————

    HI back at you! love the enthusiasm.

    another name for credits at u of t is full course equivalents, or FCEs. once you know that, understanding what 20 credits actually means is a lot simpler— it essentially entails that, to complete your degree, you need the equivalent of 20 full-year courses. with very few exceptions, each full year course is typically worth 1.0 FCE, while each half-year (single-semester) course is worth 0.5 FCE. so to finish your degree with 20.0 FCEs, you’ll need to take some combination of full year courses and half year courses that add up to the right amount. you can also think about it this way: if you plan to take 5 courses each fall/winter semester of your degree (which you totally don’t have to, but many people do), then that means you’ll end up with 20.0 FCEs after four years.

    i hope that makes sense! no dumb questions here, since this blog basically exists to help people navigate the tangle of rules and bureaucracy that is u of t. if you want a handy-dandy tool to help you track your credits and programs, you can check out degree explorer.

    but… oh, honey, if 20 credits confused you, you’re gonna love this thing called the 12 distinct credits rule.

    be Boundless,

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    it took me way too long to add 4 + 4 + 7 together

    April 20, 2020

    Hi aska, I know lots of people are asking about the 12.0 distinct credits rule, but how would that apply to 1 major and 2 minors… None of my program credits overlap so I can assume I’m safe?

    ——————————————

    hey there,

    you are correct that this is a super common question, but it’s common because it’s one of the most confusing things at this school.

    the 12 distinct credits rule does apply to 1 major and 2 minors, yes. since a minor is typically 4.0 credits and a major is typically around 7.0 credits, one major and two minors with no overlap should add up to around 15.0 distinct credits. since i don’t know what programs yours are, i can’t confirm this for you, but you can probably do the math yourself!

    if in doubt, UTSC has put together a pretty solid 12 distinct credits worksheet that can be useful for more complicated program combinations with some degree of overlap. just throwin’ that out there in case you decide to change your program at some point, and need to figure things out again. you can also use it for your current program combo if you REALLY want to be sure.

    but yeah, bottom line, i think you’re probably safe.

    be Boundless,

    aska

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  • 12 distinct credits

    all of life is pain!

    January 7, 2020

    i’m thinking of double majoring, and some of the courses i can take for it are included as being able to count for both majors. (soc and wgs). if i take one of those courses that are in both lists, will it only count towards one of the majors, or both?

    ——————————————

    hey there,

    allow me to complicate your life and introduce you to the 12 distinct credits rule. it’s this weird lil u of t quirk designed to marginally ease the sufferin’ of students who are taking multiple related POSts.

    to quote myself, because if my profs can do it so can i:

    “a quick (but not foolproof!) way of calculating the number of credits that you can share between majors is to add together the number of credits that both majors require, and then subtract 12.0: the remainder is the number of credits which can be applied to both majors.”

    so the answer to your question is that it depends. as long as you ensure you have 12.0 distinct credits, courses from both lists will count towards both degrees. in your case specifically, a wgs major requires 7.0 FCEs, as does a soc major. generally, what this means is that you can have 2.0 credits’ worth of overlap between the two– this equates to two full-year courses, four half-year courses, or a full-year course plus two half-year courses.

    hope this helps!

    be Boundless,

    aska

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