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the ultimate showdown

Is Utm commerce inferior to Rotman commerce? What are the significant differences?



i’m going to present you with all the relevant information so that you can make your own informed opinion about the two programs. since i’m not in commerce, i don’t actually have my own opinion, and even if i did think one was better, i can’t actually tell you because i’d have some very angry people dressed in suits knocking on my door.

Suits hell tv reaction usa

that being said, i’m going to lowkey paraphrase an aska post from 2 years ago because they gave great info. don’t worry, this is not me throwing subtle shade at you for not looking through old posts. it took some digging to find!

the main difference between UTM commerce and Rotman commerce are in the requirements needed. Rotman’s requirements can be found here and UTM requirements can be found here. if you are thinking of applying after first year, you’ll see a difference in the minimum grade requirements. you can take a look at both of them and see which one seems better suited for you.

do keep in mind that if you are accepted to Rotman, you will not be able to take any RSM classes at UTM or at UTSC.

the main takeaway of this post is: Rotman has a reputation that can’t be ignored; it is no doubt one of the best undergraduate business programs in canada. that being said, UTM is definitely part of this reputation, considering the fact that it is a branch of one of the best universities in canada. at any rate, whichever one you choose, you’ll get an excellent education, just because it’s still at U of T.

i would highly recommend that you try to reach out to both schools for more information. a cool thing about Rotman is that they have student ambassadors who would be happy to connect with you and tell you more! for UTM, i would recommend that you direct your general inquiries to the department of management, which you can find here. you might also find it worthwhile to check out both campuses to see which one you like more! U of T campus tours are a great place to start.

i wish you all the best in your commercial endeavours!




MB, eh?

I’m working towards a bachelor degree in psychology and communications, could I apply for mba?


hey there,

i’m going to answer this question using the uoft MBA program as a guide, because your undergrad degree is probably not from uoft (seeing as we don’t have a communications program), and you didn’t say where you want to get your MBA, but i have to assume something about this question is related to uoft. it’s in our URL, after all.

MBAs, like JDs and MDs, are surprisingly lax in their undergraduate requirements. you don’t need to have a specific degree or a background in a certain area in order to apply. your bachelor in psych and communications would not disqualify you.

what you should take a look at is all of their other requirements for admission, of which there are quite a few: GRE/GMAT scores, a competitive GPA, (typically) at least 2 years of work experience, an admissions essay and an interview, and possibly a few more things besides. if you’re wondering what you’re up against in terms of competition for admission, take a look at the current class profile. you can find out the average admissions GPA, average GMAT score, and other helpful information to give you an idea of what the school is looking for.

in short: the world is your oyster, future expensive tie-wearer! go forth and apply. i hope all your dreams come true.




sweatin’ through high school english

Hi, I am just wondering if Rotman frowns upon doing ENG4U online during the summer. Will they admit someone over me who has done it in day school?



hey there,

i can’t find anything online indicating that there would be a difference, and to be honest, my intuition would say that a good mark is a good mark, regardless of how you took it. lots of people fast track courses (especially English, the English specialist grumbles bitterly under her breath), so i doubt that would be a deciding factor for them.

however, you can always feel free to contact the Rotman program office and ask this question.




rotman hopefuls break your heart


My name is [redcated] and I am currently in Grade 11. I am wanting to get into the Rotman Commerce program but am becoming more nervous and stressed out as I get closer and closer to University applications. So, my question is: how strict are the admission requirements how steep has the competition been the last few years? For example, would I still have a chance of getting admitted if I had 75% in Calculus and what was the minimum average requirement for the past few years.



hey there,

you must be new here, my friend! as many frustrated high schoolers before you will tell you, aska has literally no information about admission statistics that isn’t already publicly available.

that being said, here’s what i do know:

i’ll never say never, BUT the rotman site does say that you should have received a mark in the mid- to high-80s in calculus to be considered. since they list it under “Minimum admissions requirements,” i’d say it’s pretty important.

as for a cut-off, the closest thing i can give you to that is the anticipated admission grade average for fall 2015: for Rotman, it was in the mid- to high-80s. keep in mind, this is your top 6 4U/M courses including english and calculus.

i am wondering, though: have you already done calculus? surely you’ve only done functions since you’re only in grade 11? you can’t have fast-tracked that much.

if you’re freaking out about your calculus mark before you’ve even done the course: firstly, calm down. go have a hot chocolate and watch some netflix or something.

SECONDLY: you have lots and lots of time to prevent this issue from even happening. if you’re not doing so well in functions and you’re worried about how it will impact your calculus mark, then take the time now to improve as much as you can! get a tutor for the summer. take advantage of time, wherever you can find it. you can do this.

good luck with your application.




econ will getcha, even in high school

Hey there,
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate about the existence of this site. As you can see from my subject, I’m a current grade 12 students who is struggling with my average and considering retaking a course. My average, I would say it would be around 88-90ish. I know people have a higher chance at getting offer with an average 93-97ish, but I still have my hopes up! Anyways, my school is a 2 semesters system, and I’m taking economics 12 in the first semester. However, I’m not satisfied about where I’m getting right now for economics (84% FYI). I’m thinking to retake economics in the second semester, and I’m wondering how would u of t see my marks since I’ll be having 2 marks, one original and one retake. I heard some universities will average up between the original and the retake mark, and some universities will take some marks off from the retake mark. Thank you so
much for answering my questions.

Best regards.


hey there,

the subject line of your e-mail says that you’re applying to Rotman commerce, which makes the answer a little bit different from usual. rotman commerce does not consider retakes, so it probably wouldn’t make much sense to retake economics for that reason. that being said, depending on the other programs you’ve applied to at other schools, you may want to retake it if those other universities do accept repeated attempts.

also, if you’ve applied to other streams at uoft (e.g. humanities, social sciences, etc.) then the repeated course won’t be completely discredited, but it will impact your application in that preference will be shown to students whose marks were the result of a single attempt.

finally, do keep in mind that the only required course for Rotman (in addition to English) is calculus. that means that if your economics mark is not within your top six 4U/M courses (including calculus and English), it won’t be part of your admissions average at all. so another way of approaching this pickle you’re in might be to take another course next semester in which you anticipate you’ll do really well, and boot economics out of your top 6.

best of luck with your application, mi amigo. i wish you a fabulous businessy future, full of tapered dress pants and not-too matchy-matchy suit jackets.




rotman hopeful

Hi there!

Thank you so much for answering all these questions <3

When someone is applying from arts and science into Rotman commerce, I know its really competitive but what is an example of the marks required?

I really really want to get in. If you have any tips or tricks please let me know. Please let me know what i have to do i am desperate

Thank you!!!


hey there,

i can’t give you an example of the marks required. what i can tell you is of the many, many people who want to do this each year, only a handful are taken in from the Faculty of Arts & Science. you get me? a handful. under 10.

as you can imagine, then, your GPA has to be pretty competitive to get accepted. i don’t know the exact marks needed because that information is not available to me, but let’s just say you need to be excelling.

the minimum requirement is a 73% average in RSM100, MAT133 and ECO100, so the higher you can get above that, the better your shot. if you’d like to know how your marks measure up, my suggestion would be to talk to your registrar’s office about it.

(sidenote: i’m not saying this to discourage you. for all i know, you could be an excellent candidate to transfer into rotman. i don’t even know what your transcript looks like! i’m just saying that it is competitive, and you should ask your registrar about it before going ahead with the transfer request.

the only tip i have is: do the best you can to get your marks up. whatever you need to do to prioritize school, do it. if you need to ask for help with something, ask. this is within your reach, but only if you put a certain amount of effort in. you can do it.

actually, i lied. i have one more tip: ask yourself seriously why you want to do this. i’m not trying to dissuade you, but if you’re going to do this, you may as well make sure you’re doing it for the right reasons.

i have had a lot of stupid dreams. thing is, i only realized they were stupid after asking myself: cut the BS, why is it you really want this? if the answer is anything other than, “because i love it and i would rather do nothing else,” you’re likely not going to be very successful in achieving your dreams.

so ask yourself: why rotman? is it because you love it, or the shiny building? not, by the way, that i’m?judging you for loving the shiny shiny building. authority is built on shine, austerity, Gothic imitation style and wood panelling (though not, typically, all at the same time). just try and separate the idealized version of the thing from the actual thing when you’re making your decision.




eco100 again…and again…

Thank you so much for running this website.

I recieved a 50 in eco100 in the summer, I have to take it again this upcoming year, depending on what grade i get, what will my gpa show? and how can i calculate it on the gpa calculator on the arts and sciene page

also, if i am applying to rotman commerce at the end of the upcoming year, they require 67%, so which mark will they consider? Also, if i do really well (80+) in my other courses and really good in my second time around taking eco, will they take me into the program?

thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


hey there,

it’s not a problem at all! i love running this website. i mean, i’ve disappointed my parents on a fundamental level by being a no-good internet person, but hey. we learn to love ourselves.

if you are able to retake ECO100 a second time, it will necessarily be counted as an extra. that means that the course will not count towards your GPA or your 20.0 degree credits.

your 50% from the first retake, however, will count towards your GPA and will be weighted the same as the first time you took the course, unless that one was ALSO an extra. it would only have been an extra if the FIRST time you took ECO100, you passed it.

as for how you can calculate this, you can either use a calculator and your grade 4 math skills, OR you can use UTSC’s handy-dancy GPA calculator. if you’re confused about whether your first retake was counted on an extra, just check your transcript; it should be noted there.

in terms of your chances of getting into rotman, there are two answers:

if you were admitted to rotman straight out of high school, under guaranteed admission:

you had one full calendar year to complete ECO100. that means that if you took ECO100 in Fall/Winter 2014-2015, then again this past summer, and you have to take it again in Fall/Winter 2015-2016, you no longer have guaranteed admission to rotman, because one full calendar year has passed.

also, if you passed the course the past two times you took it, that would mean that you’re taking it as an extra for the second time, which is not allowed. if, however, you failed it the first time, took it again and passed, then you can take it a third time as an extra.

if you’re applying to rotman as a regular Faculty of Arts & Science student:

they will consider your highest mark for ECO100, BUT keep in mind that applying this way is very competitive. only a handful of students are admitted this way every year, and you’ll need to do very well in ECO100 (as well as in RSM100 and your first-year calculus course) to have a shot of getting in.

i know this business with the extras can be a little confusing, so if you have any more questions, please talk with your college registrar about it. they will have a much fuller picture of your situation and can advise you further.

best of luck,



rotman but like not at rotman


I am currently a high school student in South Asia, studying under the British curriculum (O/A levels). I am looking forward to applying to Rotman Commerce (undergrad) for Fall 2016 and that is my first choice as well. I was wondering, what kind of AS level grades do I need so that I have a chance to get in? Also, about the supplementary application, is the essay question usually related to ECA’s? Any tips on how to nail the supplementary app?

This part of the question might sound a little stupid (I apologize in advance) but if one doesn’t get admitted into Rotman, can they still study commerce at UofT St. George, merely under the faculty of arts and science instead of Rotman commerce?

Any help would be appreciated!!


hey there,

despite the fact that i have answered questions about the British-patterned system before, i’m still a little shaky on exactly what it all means. it’s like when you learn french in school and then you go to montreal or paris and all of a sudden you’re not entirely sure how this language actually works.

so this is what the admissions website says: “At least five different IGCSE/GCSE/Ordinary Level academic subjects and four different Advanced Subsidiary academic subjects OR three different Advanced Level/International Advanced Level academic subjects.” meaning you need at least 4 AS courses or three A level courses, as far as i can tell.

as for grades, you’ll need to achieve all ‘A’s’ at the A and O levels, and you’re required to take English and A/AS Maths. like i said, i don’t really know what that means, but i hope it means something to you.

i have no idea what ECA’s are. if that’s a rotman thing, i’ve never heard of it. i’m going to take a wild guess and assume it’s shorthand for ‘extra-curricular activities,’ but if it means something else, i’m sorry.

if you’re asking about extra-curriculars, rotman explicitly states that the supplemental application allows you to “tell [them] about your interests, accomplishments and goals in and outside of the classroom.” basically, you’ll want to focus on stuff that you would highlight in a cover letter. so yeah, extra-curriculars will probably come into it.

i can’t give that many personal tips on applying because i’m not in rotman – i chose a far more useless program than that – but following the tips that rotman itself gives might not be a bad idea:

1. the video response is timed (you have one hour) so it would be smart to have some notes prepared beforehand. make sure they’re easy for you to understand, and maybe try rehearsing points you want to highlight a couple of times.

2. make sure you’re familiar with your video software of choice before beginning. you don’t want to have to do any technical troubleshooting in the middle of your application.

3. prepare a comfortable environment in which to complete the application. have water nearby, sit in a bedroom or study that’s familiar to you, and aim for as quiet and calm a workspace as you can get. make sure that one hour is the most serene hour you’ve ever had.

and finally, unfortunately, you can’t study commerce outside of Rotman. if you want to study commerce, it has to be through Rotman (on the downtown campus); no loopholes. that’s some smart thinking, though – you’ll be a great businessperson.

best of luck with your application,



rotmikes (not a good combined name. i regret this.)

I’ve been accepted to Rotman but I’ve been reading a lot of things that are putting me off, specifically that the atmosphere is cold and your campus and social life will suffer. How true are you finding this? Also do you have any idea what St. Michael’s College is like? I was accepted there for residence and would like to know more about it:) thanks in advance!


hey there,

before i get into this, i may as well give full disclosure: i’m not a rotman student, so i don’t have any kind of INTIMATE KNOWLEDGE about how rotman works. i have a lot of anecdotal information from having friends in rotman, but that can only go so far. i mean, they don’t let people onto the internet with just ANECDOTES, y’know. only real, legit people get on the internet.

but hey, not being in rotman has never stopped me writing about them before! check out aska’s rotman tag for all kinds of musings.

as a general point, i’ll say that lots of programs that are known for being very INTENSE can be isolating (engineering, engsci, rotman, economics, comp. sci). if it turns out you don’t like the program and/or find it very difficult, it can be hard to integrate yourself into the community.

to put it another way: if it turns out you hate commerce, you’re not going to want to be hanging out with a bunch of commerce-y people all the time. it’ll get real old, real fast.

however, it’s not impossible to make friends and get involved. here are a list of student organizations at rotman, all of which are a great opportunity to make friends within rotman. and if you love what you’re studying, you’ll be able to make friends with other people who love it and actually enjoy yourself.

also, you’re allowed to have a life outside rotman (believe it or not). college life is a great opportunity to get involved – at st. mike’s you have the st. michael’s college student union, the st. michael’s college residence council and the st. michael’s college troubadours, just to name a few.

even if you don’t do anything on campus, it’s hard NOT to make friends when you’re living on residence. just like…exist…on your floor and people will notice you and talk to you. and if YOU take the initiative to talk to THEM? well then, you’re golden.

if you want to know more about st. mike’s, please check out our st. mike’s tag. you can also peruse aska’s ‘prospective students’ page and check out the links listed for st. michael’s college. (there’s a lot of ’em and they took a ridiculously long time to link, so please click on them).

the residences at st. michael’s college are divided into five buildings. st. mike’s is the only college on campus which has single-sex floors – which i guess could be a good or a bad thing, depending on your perspective.

despite that, every house/floor in the residence is part of an incredibly tight-knit community. everyone dines in the canada room, which is a great big dining hall on the college campus. everyone eats together, everyone lives together, and everyone participates in rez life together.

as a first year, you’re most likely to be put in fisher house, teefy house or elmsley hall (1st or 4th floor) (if you’re female), and moore house or elmsley hall (2nd or 3rd floor) (if you’re male). you can read up on the character of each building here.

congrats again on your acceptance! see you around next year,



a specialist and a major sounds so easy in theory


I’m currently in grade 12 and have already submitted my OUAC application to UofT for Rotman Commerce. The trouble is, last year grade 11 second semester, I completely crashed all my courses due to external circumstances and (putting all the grade 11 courses aside,) there’s this one calculus mark (I fast-tracked) that Rotman actually looks at. I got a 81 in that course. However, my school calls it a AP Calc course but I don’t know how Rotman can see that or even consider that factor from OUAC as the only indicator is that the course code ends with a 9.

I saw couple previous replies regarding Rotman’s mid-high 80s requirement for calculus. My questions are:

Can Rotman see it is an AP course?

If they can, do they factor that into considerations?

Is there somewhere I can explain a special circumstance

Do I still have a chance? (I have fairly strong extra crcs and a 92 avg from midterms grade 12)

Thank you for your help!

Oh, and also aside from admissions, are you allowed to have one major in Rotman and another major in general artsci e.g. Ethics, Society and Law?


hey there,

AP courses can be used as transfer credit at this university, so yes, they know if you took an AP course. HOWEVER, just make sure that it is being communicated to the university that you did actually take an ap course.

if you’re an ontario high school student and you did your AP class through your high school, then usually, your school will just submit your AP marks automatically. that’s how they did it for me, anyway, back when i was in high school in the Year of Our Lord 1669.

however, if you did AP independently, you should speak to your guidance counsellor about the proper procedure for sending uoft your AP results.

since rotman does explicitly state that you need mid to high 80s in MCV4U, it might be nice to explain to them any extenuating circumstances that might’ve affected your mark. feel free to contact enrolment services to see where you could direct that kind of letter.

do you have a chance? i don’t know. i’m just a girl in a chicken suit. you guys give me way too much authority. but given that you meet all the other requirements, and if you submit a strong supplemental application, i’d say you’re still in the running. again, i’m not the number one authority on this by any means, but – don’t stop trying.



P.S. according to the university, you ARE allowed to enrol in up to two specialists and/or majors. rotman is a program within the faculty of arts & science (though they sure do seem like their own little world sometimes), so doing a rotman specialist (there are no rotman majors) and another FAS major should be fine.


rotman woes

so im a first year rotman commerce student… kind of. after getting my offer, i didnt exactly meet the required final mark for gr12 calc so i need to reapply at the end of the school year with a competitive gpa to re-enter the program. the thing is, im pretty much failing all 3 of my first year commerce courses. i wanted to kick into high gear for two of my courses and retake the third next year, but after learning that the uni sees BOTH ur attempts, “evening out” my grade just wont be possible…. should i ncr/cr that (probably) failed course so i can start fresh, or is it a bad idea to “waste” one of my ncr/cr’s like that? but if i do bad in my “high gear” courses theres no hope, i cant ncr/cr everything…

im so lost, im not sure if this is even the right path for me. im not sure if i started failing my courses because i got too behind or because i lost interest (i only applied for business programs out of “practicality”, i actually dont care for it too much… but im still struggling to find what my passions are). should i be more realistic about my eventual doom and look for what i enjoy instead? its hard to let go of the rotman dream (if it was even one of mine)…. slipped right through my hands, damn!


hey there,

well, it’s better to credit/no-credit a course than to fail it. however, 1) rotman has fairly rigid limits on which courses you can cr/ncr, and 2) if you’re failing three courses, that’s probably an indication of a bigger issue.

rotman is too expensive to do if you’re not absolutely in love with it. i understand that concerns about employability are important, but if you hate your program enough that you don’t do well in it, you may as well not do it.

it’s okay if you don’t know what you’re passionate about yet. despite the mounting pressures from the outside world to turn universities into a factory for corporate employees (gag/vomit), i still believe that university can – and should be – a place to try new things and figure stuff out.

the first thing you want to do is talk to someone at rotman about this. your best bet would be academic advising or the rotman commerce program office. ask them how feasible it would be for you to stay in rotman, and what you can do to boost your grades. ask them about the possible repercussions of retaking those courses you’re not doing so well on.

ask them about transferring to the faculty of arts & science. ask them about other programs, universities, colleges – whatever it is that’s quietly pulsating at the back of your mind, daring you to talk about it aloud.

as someone who transferred out of a “practical” school/program/way of life into something i actually care about, i understand that it can be hard to let go of an idea of yourself as a certain kind of person. and deciding to leave rotman definitely warrants some careful consideration – you shouldn’t do it unless you’re absolutely certain, and preferably after you’ve heard two or three people’s outside opinion.

but the fact is: you’re going to get so much more out of your time if you spend it on something you care about. you will be happier, more successful, and more productive. so whatever you decide, have that as your goal.

anyways, everyone knows businesspeople are SO out of fashion.*



*i’m joKING, @rotman you know i love you.


talking about some business business


I am an IB student. I would be interested to go to a business school or a university in order to study business/management. I was wondering in which school could I go with which grades ? Maybe, if you have some websites in mind that could help me, I will be happy to visit them.

Thanking you in advance and waiting for your answer.


hey there,

i only really know about business at uoft, and very generally in ontario, so that’s what i’m gonna tell you about.

most people agree that the really good business schools in ontario are schulich at york, ivey at western and rotman at uoft (utm’s management programs are also really good).

this is a uoft blog, so obviously i can tell you the most about rotman and UTM management. i’d recommend you browse the rotman tag if you want to learn all the intricacies and funny little details of that part of uoft.

you can also browse rotman’s viewbook and their FAQ’s and Useful Links page for a lot of basic info about the school.

if you have any more questions about commerce at uoft, just shoot ’em my way. and good luck in your research – hopefully you’ll be on your way to the most businessy of careers in no time!




this question won’t be relevant for much longer so READ IT NOW

Hello aska!
I have several questions regarding the CR/NCR option since this is the very time I plan to use it…
1. For Rotman Commerce Students, how many FCES are we allowed to use for CR/NCR option? And do we need to pass 50% or 60% in order to get a credit?2. I am doing finance specialist and we have up to 5 ECO electives, can I make any one of them to be CR/NCR option? I know that if I pass it, I will get a credit with no marks. But without a mark on ECO elective, is it going to affect my graduation?
I really appreciate your help!


hey there,


1) you can use CR/NCR for 1.0 FCEs, and the passing mark would be 60%.

2) “the specific ECO requirements listed in the non-RSM portion of the PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS cannot be CR/NCR – only ECO courses or non-ECO courses being used to bring the total credits up to 10.0 can be CR/NCR.” so i’m gonna say…yes? again, if they’re just electives and not listed as program requirements, then that’s okay. it might be a good idea to call rotman and double-check.

cheers (and remember the deadline to designate F-section courses credit/no-credit is TODAY AHHH),


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